Get Unruly

The Unruly Act of Putting Yourself First: with Chris West

• Kim Bolourtchi • Season 5 • Episode 11

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In this powerful and thought-provoking episode, Kim Bolourtchi and Chris West dive deep into what it truly means to live authentically and put yourself first—even when it means going against social expectations or risking disappointment. 

Through candid stories and practical wisdom, Chris reveals the secret to exceptional personal branding and the transformative benefits of radical honesty and self-prioritization. Discover why saying “no” can be the most loving choice, and how embracing your unique “zone of genius” and daring to be strategically unruly can lead to deeper fulfillment, stronger relationships, and a more courageous, honest life. 

Tune in and reflect on your own boundaries—what would change if you put yourself first?

CLICK HERE to learn more about Chris and Video Narrative. 


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Kim Bolourtchi:

Welcome to get unruly. I'm so glad you're here. Today's guest is Chris West. Chris is the founder of video narrative, a brand design firm that specializes in growing speaking businesses through brand clarity, Speaker demo reels and website design, before working with leading speakers around the world, Chris developed his approach for stories in his graduate work in narrative therapy. When not telling stories, you'll find Chris near the ocean or searching for a road he's never been down. I am so excited for this conversation, and I know you are going to love it, Chris, welcome to get unruly. I'm so excited to have you as a guest today, and I already know we're going to jump into so many things that are of value to the listeners. So welcome. I am excited to jump in with you.

Chris West:

I'm so excited for this conversation as well. I think we're going to go to some pretty interesting places.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I I know that we are and I want to just jump right in. So one of the things that is so fascinating about you and the work that you get to do is you're actually the creative visionary behind some of the biggest speakers that are out there, and you're so modest about it. But the truth is, anytime there's, like, an incredible video that comes out, a speaking reel that comes out, you're usually the person who's done it for a really high profile person. And one of the things I'm, I'm so curious about, is people come to you and they they want you to tell their story. They want you to, you know, put them out there in the very best way. How often do they come ready to leave it all out there?

Chris West:

I would say, probably very rarely are any of us ever ready to leave it all out there, right? Yes, so yeah. So usually it's, it's, that's, that's definitely a, let's position me in the best light possible, right? But there is an authenticity to every person that if we can get to the root of it, it is the thing that will jump off the out of the video the most to people, yeah, but it's hard to find sometimes. And I would say that most of us, myself, probably included, I'm getting way more comfortable in the world to do it, but I think putting ourselves fully out there is, I think, the most vulnerable thing we can do, and something that we don't want to do very often.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I would completely agree, and I know I struggled with that in doing my own video. You know, dance, not dance. Do I Do I tell that part of the story, or do I not? And I think one of the reasons I'm, I'm so curious to talk about this, is because when we talk about positioning ourselves, right? I think a lot of where that comes from are the messages we get from the world or the people who are advising us about what makes us marketable or what makes us palatable. And I don't always think that's great advice. What do you think?

Chris West:

Well, I think that the more important question to ask and answer to really hone in on is it's really around what problem you're best at helping solve. And people hate to be limited to one thing or to get into really specific things, but it's actually the secret to everything, and I'll share a story with you in the early on, I was in graduate school, school, you know, just paying my way through graduate school, studying, actually, narrative therapy, how our brains process narratives and story and doing video work right to pay my way through graduate school, I had no intention of starting a company eventually, You know, being a brand style person and a speaker asked me to do a video and told me the story of what happened with Coors Light in 2005 as a company. And most people don't know this story, but in 2005 Coors Light was the most generic beer brand there is. I mean, there was nothing unique about it. There was, it was just a Coors Light on the can. That was it. And there's commercials you can watch from this time where you could just push play and take the can out of it and put another competitor's can in. And the commercial wouldn't stay the same, because it was kind of about partying and things like that. And they knew they had a problem, and so they got together and they asked their ideal clients, what do they want? And males 21 to 25 gave them a list of all the things they wanted to light beer, and of all the things taken, are all the things that they could the top 10 list. The only two things that weren't taken were cheap and cold. They said, We're not going to be cheap. So then they asked themselves, can we be the coldest? And I think this is the answer to the question that for most people is most people are so afraid of deciding they're going to be known for one thing, especially the most authentic thing to them. And I think that when you have the courage to say, of all the things I could choose, what lights me up the most. And an example is someone. Um, I actually just shared a little bit about today on LinkedIn, who, who speaks about compassion, and another guy named Shola Richards that I can think of, who speaks about kindness. I remember the day we were in. I was meeting him for the first time. He's like, I know this is probably not going to be very, you know, bookable, but I will tell you the thing that I want to speak about the most is kindness. And yeah, and yet, when we built the story around it, and his story in the center of the video is about committing suicide, an attempted suicide, right? So many people said, leave that out. It's going to trigger too many things. It's going to be too vulnerable, it's going to be too much. But it was both him saying, I want to do this, which is about kindness, and I experienced such bad bullying all my life growing up, including in the workplace, to the point where I thought, if this is always going to be the case, I might as well just go that. Then instead, he made a decision to do things differently. And so it is, what is the heart, the core, of what you want to speak about. What's the center of it? And if it's got no business case, that's okay make a business case. But so many people bend mold try to, like, you know, work off the edges, rather than just being true to what they want to do, including, I think, is a bird. Example, is you? You love this topic about being unruly, strategically and really, and it's not the most like you could have chosen a much more bookable topic

Kim Bolourtchi:

for sure, absolutely,

Chris West:

but this is the core of you, yes, and including the fact that you're a dancer in it was a huge risk and a huge thing we talked about.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Absolutely. I love the examples. I love the examples that you've given, and also the insight into picking one thing because you're so right. I think the human brain loves options, right? We love the idea of of, well, you know, the more options I have, the more possibility then that someone is going to like me, or more people are going to like me. And when we say I need to pick just one thing, or I need to really, you know, figure out what the thing is, it suddenly feels like, well, what if nobody likes that? Or what if nobody wants that? I know that that was something I struggled with. You know, when I really leaned into to my framework was, well, this just might be way too strange for people, right? And ultimately, it was. If it is, it is because this is what I stand for. This is what I've lived through and want to share. But like the conviction that you need to be able to put that into the world, you know, once you've sort of invested in building something is, it's not for the faint of heart. And there are a lot of people telling you not to do that. To your point, you know, they're saying Just, just, in fact, you know, a lot of advice I was given early on was pick something really, you know, that's mainstream, get your get yourself in there, and then you can be who you're really, you know, meant to be. Just, just find your way in first. And that is the complete opposite way that anybody should do anything, in my opinion, absolutely.

Chris West:

And we can see story after story and story of this being the case, but it doesn't ever make it any less vulnerable to do. And that's the difference. Is that this is going to take tremendous courage. And what's so interesting with the work that I do is because all of my work is personal branding. Everyone I work with has had an incredible career, and then they go to brand themselves. And for some reason, everything that they knew that they were so sure of is no longer working. You know, I can't tell you how many times this has happened. Someone has left a company that they scale to hundreds of millions of dollars. Sometimes personally, you know the CEO of a company, they're like, Yeah, during my tenure, they scaled three 50 million, wow. But then they go to to position themselves, and it's so much easier to be the face of a company that it is to be the face of you. It's such a vulnerable thing, and now they're not putting they're not rejecting the company, they're not going a different direction. They're rejecting you. Yeah, right. And then one of the reasons I work really well with thought leaders and professional speakers is why I only work with this group, is I I see the people who are ready to change the world. They're the people who want the microphone, they want the stage, and they want to say, hey, we can do things differently. And yet, usually, their motivation comes from something that happened in their childhood that was such a vulnerable, difficult thing, that every time the they go a different direction or whatever, it's like a wound getting pulled open again, and that's a very difficult place to be, and as a result, most people end up playing it safe. A great, great example that I love, though, is that a client who's become a good friend. His name is Ozan VAROL. He told me, I want to write this book about our soul and our spirit and and like the thing that was. Present at birth for all of us, which is, that's the definition of our genius, right? And he had just written a book that was like, buy the book. It was like, how to think like a rocket scientist. It was for businesses. Had done very well. It was all these things. And the next book he wanted to write was so far away from that. And like he said, I don't think my publisher is going to be open to it. I don't really know if anyone's going to even like this book like I don't, but I feel like I have to get it out. It's the thing that's calling to me. You know, at one point in the middle of his book, the book wrote a poem to him. I He just couldn't stop typing. And the book, in the middle of this book just is a poem to the reader from the book. And this is the opposite of the business books he'd been writing. And yet that book performed so much better because it touched people on a core level. And I will tell you, I've gotten to read parts of your new manuscript, and that's the way I experience your book. Kim, I really do. It's like, that's how it feels, it feels so real and from your heart that it's going to touch many people's hearts.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Thank you. Thank you. I'm excited about that, that, but it's, it's that same feeling, right, when we're just kind of trusting what's, what's coming through, and kind of wanting to go into the world, which, again, this is not how we're taught. It's supposed to happen. It's like you're given this. This is the path, this is what you're supposed to do. But when you just sort of let it organically happen, amazing things happen. And the person you were just describing who wrote that book, the fact that he was able to write this really strategic business book and then write this soulful, creative book that just speaks to the heart shows like a fully integrated person, right? Like being able to fully integrate all the gifts and talents, which is pretty unruly. Most people are told, pick a lane, stay in the lane. If you're doing well in the lane, that's your lane. And you know, one of the things that I love to encourage is this idea of you don't have just a lane, you've got a gazillion lanes, and you're meant for so much more than what the world wants to tell you you need to do. And I think that's that's one of the things I love so much about your work, is that you find a way to pull people across those lanes. Sometimes, I think without even them realizing it, I know, with me, I had no idea what my video was going to look like, or what that work was going to end up being, and everyone who saw it was like, oh my god, it's you like. That is the essence of you, and you capture that in people. What allows you to do that so beautifully?

Chris West:

I do think we all have our zone of genius, right? We do have that essence of what it feels like just to be us, and that is what's so beautiful. And so often we compare our zone of genius to other zones of genius. And instead of just fully embracing ours, right? And certainly, my zone of genius has been since I was little. Every person I meet, I get sort of an impression of them, but I have the ability also, then to immediately turn it into a, you know, a product, a service, a video, a something, a website that will book, get them booked, or get them chosen among others. And that certainly is, I think, the zone of genius. But I think the second part is, then I cultivated it over, you know, now, 1314, years of just every single day doing that over and over. And then the last part is I just constantly remind this, remind myself of this over and over. I did this yesterday. Be humble. I put out a video to share a video that's very different. And I told the client, from the beginning, this is super different. You asked for a very different video. A lot of people aren't going to get it right away. And he put it out there, and a lot of people were like, You shouldn't do that in the opening. Do something different. You should solve this business problem. It's a little bit too off the but one of the things I did was I said, you know, I first thought I had in my mind was I told you they were going to say that and but, you know, my ego is like, all the things. And I just watched my ego, sort of like, are you done? And then, and then I say, okay, what are all the things I could learn from every bit of that feedback, and which is really applicable and which can be let go? And so I think it's that combination of working in the zone of genius, whatever is your zone of genius, and then building skills and mastery around it, but then the third is just staying so I say to myself every single day, like, it's that learner's mindset, like, what new thing can I do? I don't have this all figured out, and so let's just stay open. And stay open, because someone else's zone of genius is going to help me see something I can't see right now. And it's the combination where most people get to that third version of the video that they see out loud, out in the world, and they haven't seen the first draft or the second where we took all the feedback in and shifted it as we needed to to stay authentic. But also

Kim Bolourtchi:

work. Yeah, I love that. I love the idea of learners mindset, because you are really a master of what you do. I mean. That's no BS you are, and the fact that you're constantly challenging yourself to stay in that space, I think, is probably one of the reasons you are so good at what you do, genuinely. I really, I admire that a lot. So talk to me about your definition of strategically unruly. What does it mean to you?

Chris West:

I think the thing that it means most to me is that I have learned how to put myself first in everything, and I had to remind myself at first how to do this. So I put up around all of my house, put yourself first, and I have this wonderful home cleaner who comes every like two to three weeks, and at first I was embarrassed of what she was gonna think of me as she went around the house and she saw all these little signs on my bathroom mirror and other stuff like put yourself first. But if I were to share the secret to life for every person on the planet. It is that when we learn to put ourselves first, everyone around us can always trust our Yes, can always trust our No, and we become the most trustworthy people. Because along with putting yourself first is this idea of 100% honesty. There's one book that I think is one of those life changing books in the world. It's called The Way of integrity by Martha Beck and Oprah calls Martha her her teacher, her coach, right? And what's interesting about deciding you're going to be honest is we all think it's a good idea to be honest, but the moment comes where you don't want to go somewhere, and you feel bad about the people you let down if you do. And so you put you don't put yourself. First, you do the thing that they would make to make them happy. And then they don't get the fullest version of you there, they get a version of you that you're supposed to be at that place, and the world would change overnight if everyone on the planet decided they were gonna put themselves first and be 100% honest. Certainly, people would leave jobs they're not happy in. They'd leave relationships they're not happy in. Lot of things would, you know, break apart, but for the best, because every person would then know instantly, Oh, that wasn't the right fit for them. You know, I don't want one of my team members to go on working at my company six months after they knew they didn't want to work there anymore. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a partner who didn't want to be there, but secretly didn't want to hurt me, right, right? And so deep in our hearts, we all want people to be honest, but the moment it comes time to put ourselves first, we think it's selfish. You know, my world has gotten pretty small, but pretty incredible, where everyone in my world says what they mean, and I say what I mean. And if that's not the case, it ends up just not working out anymore. It's like at one point in our lives, we have to get to a place where we've fallen so deeply in love with ourselves and trust and are so trustworthy with our words, that if people are moving and going where we are going, then we're going, right? And if people decide, hey, I'm I'm staying where I am, and you go, you interact with them, and it doesn't feel good, yeah, you don't keep hurting yourself out of love for them. It's the least loving thing to do, and the people who judge you for it are those who you probably don't want to be around. They always have a victim mindset. They always have this is happening to me and you will because we are all energy beings, and we just can't see with our physical eyes. But when you're around those kinds of people, your energy will drop. It'll come down. But you know what it's like when you're around someone who's full it's they're real, they're honest, they're there's like, a kind of a pull up. You're like, wow, I just love being you know, when I talk with you, and I think whenever you and I talk, it's like, totally raises. What if your entire life was around people like that? You know, that's what's possible, but we just have to be able to make some courageous decisions around those who don't, and sometimes those are family members, and some people hearing it don't want to hear it, which is okay, but that's the secondary part that putting yourself first is in every area of your life, and every area of your life will get better. And sometimes it doesn't happen right away. Sometimes it happens three years later, and the people thank you for it later, like, Hey, I was really hurt at first when you said I, you know, you didn't want to be around me at the time because I didn't feel good. But then, after I got over the feeling pissed about it, I thought I wonder what they were saying, and it got me motivated. The kindest thing we can do for everybody in our lives is to be 100% honest. And to put ourselves first, and it will have a ripple effect to everyone you meet.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that, and I also know that's really hard for people to hear. There's, there's, there's a truth to that, that even the truth of that is hard for people to hear, right and and we all kind of get there in the in the time that we're ready to hear it and ready to do it. But I would just say, you know, even if, even if, people just start in small ways of just just being more honest, instead of making up an excuse, even if it's just No, rather than no followed by a white lie, yeah, right, even if it's just I can't, because you can't energetically do it without an explanation that is not truthful, that's better than being dishonest or agreeing to something that you you know you're not able to do like like you don't have to go all the way in at the beginning if you don't feel comfortable, but, but I really love the idea of, you know, really thinking about what is, what is good, what feels good, what feels right, and honoring that, and then just being really honest about that.

Chris West:

And one of the things that I think is worth just just touching on a little bit more so that we can feel this out, is when someone asks us to do something, or someone wants to maybe work with us, and it doesn't feel good, you know, for us to work with them. The big fear we have is disappointing them and how they're going to feel when we say no, yep. So our worry and our fear is I don't want to disappoint them and I don't want them to feel bad. What we're doing in that is two very damaging things. The first is, we're not being loving to ourselves. And at the end of the day, I promise you're the only one you'll ever have. If you can't have that, that honesty with yourself, you're not trustworthy other people. And so first, if you're like, don't want to do it, but you will put yourself second to do it for someone else, not out of love, like we talked about, like there's a difference between, hey, this isn't my favorite thing, but I love you, and you're I'm crazy about you, and for sure, I will do that, right? It's I don't feel necessarily that I want to do it, but I don't want to disappoint this person or whatever. And so one, we're not honoring ourselves, which is one of the most damaging things we can do. The second thing is, without being truthful to that person, we are actually doing them a disservice rather than a kindness. And so if we're hurting two people at once, then suddenly that feeling of I don't want to disappoint them is so diminished that you can do it more and more often. And so it's a simple question. Every time someone asks you to do something, every time you're about to begin something, do I want to do this? And if the answer is not, is, is not a hell yes or yes, because I love this person and it means a lot to me to do something for them, then the answer should be no. And it gets easier and easier and easier as you go. And life gets better and better and better

Kim Bolourtchi:

it does. And it creates capacity for more of the things that you love. Totally. If you say yes to things you don't want, you just get more of the things you don't want, and then you don't have space for those amazing things that come anyway. So I always look at it as you know, when someone asked me to do something, and I used to be the queen of saying yes, because I could do it, not because I wanted to do it right, which is very different. But when you're you really have a compass, which is, do I really want to am I really excited to do this? Or because I love somebody and I'm excited to do it for them, that's a hell yes. Otherwise it's a no. Then you're only doing those things that are, you know, absolute yeses. You have so much more space for just the yeses and the nose. They're not, they're not yours, so they're a hell yes to someone else. That's the beautiful thing about our world, right? There's so many of us. We have so many different talents. I don't have to do the nose because there's somebody else who might know they're going to be a hell yes, too.

Chris West:

So it's it's daring, but it'll free you 100%

Kim Bolourtchi:

I think we've solved the world's problems today, at least a handful of them. What do you think?

Chris West:

Super easy to talk about, harder to do, but it gets easier and easier.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Thank you so much for being on the show, for sharing your wisdom. It has been an absolute pleasure. So good to be with you. Kim, thanks for listening to get unruly. If you loved this episode, it would be awesome if you would leave a quick review wherever you listened, as it helps other bold leaders find the show. If you want more, the radical clarity quiz takes like 90 seconds, and it'll tell you the rule that's running your life in the background is available in the show notes and also early access to my upcoming book strategic unruliness is linked there too. The book's about breaking the invisible rules that hold leaders back and building what's next with radical clarity. And confidence. So if you want early access to the ridiculously low price that it's going to be when it launches, hop on that list. Also, until next time, stay unruly.