Get Unruly

The 5 Second Courage Hack that Will Blow Your Mind (with Anne Bonney)

• Kim Bolourtchi • Season 5 • Episode 10

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Tired of fear holding you back? Anne Bonney—professional change-maker and keynote speaker—is about to drop the most dangerous weapon in your personal development arsenal: a 5-second courage hack that will transform how you approach change forever.

In this raw, hilarious conversation, Anne reveals how she went from a rebellious teenager sent to boarding school to a keynote speaker who helps people dance in their discomfort zone. Expect zero BS, maximum inspiration, and a practical strategy that will make your inner critic shut up and sit down. Whether you're stuck in a career rut, terrified of making a big life shift, or just need a kick in the pants, this episode is your wake-up call. Get ready to "punch it, Margaret"—your most unruly life starts now.


Connect with Anne: 

https://YourChangeSpeaker.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/annebonney/
https://www.instagram.com/speakerannebonney/

Anne's Books On Amazon

Kim Bolourtchi:

Welcome to get unruly. Today I am so excited to have the absolute fabulous Anne Bonney. We're going to talk about getting uncomfortable and change. And you are known for helping people navigate change, but when it's uncomfortable, and I think one of the things that fascinates me so much about you is that you have a really unusual path that has helped you become an expert in this. So let's start with that.

Anne Bonney:

Well, it all started on a summer day in 1973 No, yeah, it's I was, you know, born here in the US, and then when I came home from second grade, my parents said we're moving to Saudi Arabia. Then, you know, we had already moved three or four times already. And so we moved to Saudi then we moved to Egypt, then we moved to Greece, then I got sent to boarding school because I had a particularly unruly freshman year in high school. And then, you know, with all that moving, I kind of became a gypsy at heart, and have continued moving. I've moved now 29 times. I literally just bought a house a month ago, so I am moving into the new house. But I moved a lot. I've changed a lot of jobs. I started out my career as a special needs teacher. Then I went and trained animals. I realized that, oh my gosh, that was the dream job I had, and I could do it. So I did, and that was awesome, seals and sea lions in Boston and then birds of prey down in Arizona. Then I decided I needed a big kid job. So I got a job with under armor in Baltimore, and worked for them for about 10 years, helping to launch that brand. Then moved on to a group exercise company out of New Zealand. I was still in Baltimore, and then got a job with a large gym chain in New York City, and then realized the big kid jobs were for the birds and I would start my own. And so 10 years ago, I left that moved in with my parents and started a speaking business. And that was 10 years ago, and the fact that I just bought a house down in St Pete, Florida about a month ago will kind of illustrate that it's working. So, yeah, as I was starting my speaking career, you know, you realize, you know, I could speak on leadership, I could speak on, you know, customer service, I could speak on all these things that I've learned along the way. But one day, I was in the shower and I was like, Anne, you know, change. People hate change. That's what you should do. So here we are.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that. Okay, so before we get into it, I have to ask you, Are we allowed to know what you did in in ninth grade to get sent to boarding school?

Unknown:

Oh, I started dating a boy and ran away from home a lot and did all the all the things that a 14 year old daughter, you don't want your 14 year old daughter to do I did them all. Okay, thank goodness that I got out of that, because it was not a healthy path for the sweet little 14 year old girl. Learned a lot healthy like great lessons. Yeah, I know that most of the gray hair on my parents head is because of

Kim Bolourtchi:

me. Well, I'm glad that they were able to remove you from that, and sorry for the personal question, but immediately, you know, everybody wants to know what, what, what caused that? I had to answer

Unknown:

the question that everybody had, I had to ask, right? That's why I didn't have children, because they would probably that would be, you know, revenge for everything you did to your parents. And no,

Kim Bolourtchi:

I just always say, I'm so glad we didn't have phones when I was growing up, because there's no evidence. My kids never got to see any of the things that I did, and so therefore it never happened. Yeah, right, yep. So when we talk about change, one of the things that I think is so true is, you know, it's inevitable, it happens. It's constant. And a lot of times when people know they need to change, they don't want to fucking do it, and they will sit in the space of, I know I need to change. I can give you all the reasons why I need to change. It has to happen. I need to do it. And yet they will come up with every single reason not to make it happen. I would love to talk about how you particularly get people through that uncomfortable space.

Unknown:

Well, I think self awareness is kind of the first step to any personal development, any personal change or acceptance of an external change. And so the awareness that our brains prefer known over unknown is the key here, right? We better the evil you know, than that dark place that could be phenomenal. And you know, you got to get out of this one. But I don't know what's happening over there, you know, and that unknown is scarier than even the scariest known. And so having that recognition as you know, as I'm on stage and I'm talking to large groups of people about the changes they're going through and the fears they have, it be. Comes having that recognition of why it's so scary, and that that fear in your brain is should be a speed bump rather than a stop sign, right? It's in a moment to say, Okay, this is scary. Is there a bus coming? Am I about to be eaten by a mastodon? No, I probably lived through this, it's gonna take some courage, but I know it's gonna be better on the other side, and that's kind of the first step, is recognizing why it's scary and being able to move anyway. That's true

Kim Bolourtchi:

courage. Yeah, I love that. And I also think sometimes people are like, yeah, I get that, and I just don't have courage. What do you say to that

Unknown:

baloney? But me, just like me when I was 14, my parents couldn't say anything to me that would make me learn anything, right? Me saying that doesn't do any good, you know, to you learn the lessons when you're ready to learn the lessons. Yeah, and that. And they, you know, they say that when the, when the student is ready, the the message appears. I say, the teacher appears, the message appears. And, you know, everybody does have courage. It just takes, you know, and one of the premises that I talk about is punch it Margaret, which is just a, it's a fun, silly way to give you that five seconds of courage that you need to get started. Because oftentimes it's not, you don't need long courage. You just need five seconds of courage to get started. It's the activation energy that is the hardest part. Because once you're going, you're like, All right, we're go, we're good. We're dancing in the discomfort zone. Now let's keep dancing. It's just that five seconds so that that punch it Margaret is a is a fun story I tell that helps to just give you that little burst. Because, again, you don't need to have a whole body full of courage. You just need it in that one foot to take that first step.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that. Who's Margaret?

Unknown:

My grandma. Oh, you want to know the story. Yeah. Okay, so she was an English teacher, right? She was also a very cautious driver, almost to the point of being dangerous, definitely to the point of inconveniencing everybody on the road in Greensboro, North Carolina. So one summer, my brother and I were driving with her, she was driving, and we come to a four way stop. She, of course, you know, comes to a complete stop, lets everybody go, that's their turn, and then uses the English teacher look on everybody else at the intersection, so that they know that it is her turn. And then she eases into the intersection. I mean, we get halfway through, she's still going two miles an hour, and I could tell my brother in the front seat is about to lose his stuff, and he turns to her, and he goes, punch it Margaret. And it wasn't a good moment at the time, because, I mean, she punched it, but then she pulled over to yell at him, but like, that funny little and it's from a Toyota commercial in the 70s, you know, but that little punch it Margaret, that little juice you get from saying that to yourself can give you that. It makes you laugh a little, which makes you relax, yeah, it helps you to be able to, again, take that first step. So that's, I love that. Yeah, yep, I got stickers too. You know, I give them out at my keynotes. That's

Kim Bolourtchi:

amazing. And I think that is such it's such great advice too. Because I think a lot of times people just need to get going right? It's that resistance to the even that first step, and they're thinking about it in, like, the big, global way of, oh my gosh, this feels really big. And so the idea of just do something, just go

Unknown:

well. And that's the thing, do something, action shrivels anxiety. When we're being anxious about something, we're sitting around on the porch of our old comfort zone, right? We know we need to go out into the discomfort zone, but we don't want to leave the porch because there's a lot of risk, and we're swirling around in the anxiety of what could happen, right? Still anticipating future and rolling around in all the old information. Once we get off the porch, start dancing, start moving, do something, even if it's just a small step, asking a question, looking something up online, we start to learn new things, and the anxiety goes down because we realize it's just not that bad part of analysis paralysis. And I hate that term because it doesn't come out of my face, right? I call it hesitation nation. Part of being stuck in hesitation nation is that fear of what could happen and making it way bigger than than it usually is. And so act. I always say action shrivels anxiety. Just take a step, do something in that direction, and things start to become more clear and less scary.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that. I love that because anticipating is also trying to predict the future right, which we cannot do right? Yeah, like ever.

Unknown:

And you know what that voice of doubt in your head is always. Is going to make it way worse than it. I mean, not that it possibly could be. Yeah, it could end up that bad, but it's really unlikely, you know, and our brain but but the challenge is, our inner voice of doubt knows everything we've screwed up every time we've embarrassed ourselves, all the full sheets of Girl Scout cookies that we ate, you know, what we didn't know, what we don't what we you know, it has all the data which makes it really hard to trust ourselves that even if it doesn't go the perfect way, we'll figure it out 100%

Kim Bolourtchi:

Yeah, and I'm going to add in one other element, which is the thing I love to talk about, which are the rules, right? So all the rules we've been taught about, what we're allowed to have, what we're allowed to do, what is going to help us be successful, what is going to help us get to the place we're supposed to be, what's going to make us, you know, admired and respected, and all of those things we have, all of that that we're looking at too,

Unknown:

and so and recognizing what those quote, unquote rules are. You know, they're they're made up from society, or they're people trying to keep us safe by not taking the risk of action, the risk of change, right? I mean, there are all kinds of things. I read a book, my very first personal development book, The Art of Possibility, by Ben and Rosamond zander. And one of their rules is, it is all invented. And that blew my mind, recognizing that most of the shoulds should be considered, and if we do decide to go forward with the rules, we did it on purpose, not because there's somebody else's rules. Yeah.

Kim Bolourtchi:

So do you have any rules that are stuck in your sort of stuck in your life, or that are keeping you from doing the thing you're meant to do in the biggest way, probably can you.

Unknown:

Yes, it's this is something that I've been thinking a lot about. I mean, obviously when you start your own business, you leave a big fat six figure corporate career in New York City to move in with your parents and start a new business. You've already tackled some of those. You know, absolutely job you should, you know, security, blah, blah, blah. So I'm always confronting these as an entrepreneur, as an intentional person. You know, one of the big ones, I think I'm still, I can still go farther with it, though I have gone a long way. As you can tell by the I like turtles t shirt and the pompadour hairdo. I always thought you have to be small, you have to be be good in order to be loved, in order to be appreciated, in order to be liked. And so for a while in my speaking business, I had just a nice little well behaved pixie cut, and I tried to wear suits and, you know, official business outfits, like I should, because I'm running my I'm a business woman. This is serious, and I had a really hard time showing up

Kim Bolourtchi:

authentically, yeah, of course, right.

Unknown:

And so this, you should be serious and look like a business woman, and all that stuff was shrinking who I actually was and what I was capable of, and when I feel comfortable to go do Just do me. It works so much better, and it's so much more fun for everyone. Yes, you know, but that's one of the ones that I think I'm probably still working on a little bit, despite the fact that my hair looks like it's on fire.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Well, it's hard because we that message is so strong. I mean, I got this, I got the same message. And you know, even when you're you know that when you're totally authentic, your people find you. You're way more effective. You're having more fun, you're doing the thing you're really meant to do in the biggest way possible. There's still that voice that has been there for so long that's trying to tell you what it's really supposed to be, that, you know, it peaks its its head. And I, I love that we're talking about this, because I think sometimes people look at you know, they look at you right? And they're like, she's so amazing and successful and larger than life. And you know, people will see the version of you on stage, and to know that there is also messaging about what you know people said you should be and that that didn't serve you is really helpful to people who are listening to us talk, right?

Unknown:

Well, and part of that, don't be too big. Don't be too you know, out there goes with, don't show off, correct? I went to a performing arts high school, the boarding school that I got sent to, thank God, was not a reform school. It was the Interlochen Center for the Arts, which is a phenomenal school for developing young artists. I was a singer. I sang opera. I have some. So I can make some singing, and I didn't sing for a long time, and the people are saying, you need to add it to your keynote blah, blah, you and I are having the same conversation. You with the dancing, me with the adding music to my keynotes. I learned how to play the guitar two years ago so that I could add music to my keynotes, and so I could add that element. And it's terrifying, right? Because I don't want to be a show off. I don't want to just be out there singing because I can. It has to serve the message. But then once I realize how to do it right, I need to do it full on. There's the one I'm still working on, because I'm still afraid to fully commit to that. So yeah, there's the one I'm working on.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Well, this idea of not being a show off, right? Like, let's unpack that for a minute, because I think a lot of us have been told that. But what is that really? You know, when you think about that message, somebody says, Don't be a show off. It's really not about you at all, right? Who's that about?

Unknown:

Well, it's about the person saying it, right? Because they're uncomfortable either that you're getting attention or that you know you're being loud or you're drawing the attention to yourself. I don't know what their discomfort is it, but it's it's on them,

Kim Bolourtchi:

right? And it can also be that they would never be comfortable with that kind of attention, right? Or that somebody told them it was bad to show off or to be big, and they lived their whole life really, really small, even though they wanted to be bigger than they are. And so the thought of somebody else breaking out of that rule is utterly unbearable to them. So it's like, well, if I had to play small girlfriend, you better play small too. Like, who even knows right, right,

Unknown:

especially when it's your kid or your spouse. You know those people that are really, really close to you that you desperately want to protect from the dangers of doing the thing right,

Kim Bolourtchi:

right, especially if they think that we might be embarrassed or ridiculed or reject, like all the things, yep. But ultimately, that's up to us to decide,

Unknown:

right, right? And, you know, and this is one of the things that we all need to recognize. And one of the other topics that I love and that I also speak on, is emotional intelligence and the recognition that we we can't run anybody else's life. We don't know what's right for them. We can impart our knowledge and our experience, but only as that, you know. And so often, we cut people down at something that they could be phenomenal at because of our own fears. And here,

Kim Bolourtchi:

yeah, yep, no, I love that, and I think people do it unknowingly. You know, I went, like, I went through a phase where I thought it was kind of malicious. I'm not gonna lie, I'd be like, You're an ass for, you know, basically saying you can't do this, you can't do that. Like, I had a real, real attitude about it. But what I've sort of come to realize is that people just see life from their own perspective and their own experiences, and they genuinely just do and so when they say you can't do that, or you can't have that, or don't do that, that's dangerous or scary or never going to work, it's because it wouldn't work for them, or they weren't meant to do it, or it's not in their wheelhouse, or they have no lived experience of it. But it doesn't mean it's not gonna work for me

Unknown:

or you Right, exactly, exactly, and we might fail as gloriously as they did when they tried it, but I'm never gonna, like let that go for myself until I fall down and skin my knee, and then, you know what? I might still try it again, because if it's that important to me and feels that right, I'm gonna go do the thing. Yeah,

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that. Do you have any any advice for people who really want to do a thing but are scared?

Unknown:

Well, I mean, it's everything we've been talking about, right? Recognize that that fear is your brain trying to keep you alive, but your brain is 100% risk averse, right? It does not. It just wants to keep you alive. It doesn't want to keep you happy. We are at a place where our basic needs in this in the world are generally met, and so we're moving towards that self actualization. We're moving towards that personal development, which means we're doing things that are beyond just survival. We're trying to thrive, and so recognizing our brain is there for survival, and so that fear, perfectly normal, perfectly great if there's a bus coming, but merely that, that pause to say, Okay, I've thought this through. I'm going to go do this and then using that punch, it, Margaret or whatever, is going to get you to move through and take that first step. Because, and oftentimes I think of that too, like when I was when I was starting adding guitar to and music to my keynotes, I think. Didn't immediately go up and start singing in my keynote, right? I started taking lessons on the guitar, then I started practicing the song. Then I did it for a few people. I did it at an open mic. I kind of practiced it in low stakes environment. You don't have to go all in. Just take a little step, just approximate, don't worry about the finish line. Just get to that first milestone, then you can reassess and say, Alright, cool, I did that. The other thing I want you to do your I did that. So let's go to the next milestone, right? Take it one bite at a time. The other thing I want you to do is, when that fear is happening, your brain's going to tell you all the reasons it's not going to work, all the and perhaps the people around you all the reasons it's not going to work. All the reasons is a bad idea, all the reasons you are have no business doing this. Right? I want you to talk to your brain, rather than listen to your brain and ask, What if this goes well? I love that path.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that that is a brilliant reframe. What if this goes well?

Unknown:

List it out, journal it like, make a voice memo. I talk to myself in the car all the time. People in traffic probably think I'm crazy. But you know, talk, talk it out like go all into it, wander down that path and get into that forest of what if? This goes well, dream for a minute, you know, because our brain's going to automatically give us the negative. So we need to talk to it, rather than listen to it and say, okay, yeah, all that could happen and this goes well, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love that so much. Because I think, I think we don't do that right, we default to the what can go wrong, and then we get freaked out and completely, understandably, completely, and then we don't move. But if we don't often give ourselves the luxury of thinking about what happens when it goes right, exactly, that's very

Unknown:

powerful. And the other thing that that can help is, what am I saying no to by not going here, right? What am I going to be missing out on by leaving it just the way it is? Because so often when we stay safe, we're missing out on a lot of opportunities. And so by saying what am I saying yes to? By saying no to that, and oftentimes you're saying yes to stagnation, mediocrity, that's the word so you know. And you're like, all that feels yucky. This is not what I want.

Kim Bolourtchi:

And it's true, right? Because if your plates completely full with stuff, that's kind of like, meh, you have no space for fabulous, exceptional. I'm lit up by this. You You don't, right? So amazing. So just to circle back on one thing you said, because I think it's really, really important, you made the point earlier that when you started speaking, you tried to be very kind of buttoned up, and you had the hair and you wore suits and stuff like that. And obviously, that's not you. This is you. So which worked better?

Unknown:

Oh, this by a freaking mile, like, ridiculously stupid this, and it feels so much better, like, it feels like I can just be me, and my audiences respond better, so they get more from my messaging. You know, I mean, it's, it's stupid, the difference and,

Kim Bolourtchi:

I mean, it feels like that. That's so obvious. But I just wanted to make the point for for the listeners, because I think there's so many people who are still trying to be a version of what they were told they needed to be, and leaving so much of themselves out of the equation. And so I just, I can't help but make the point twice, right when, when there's an example,

Unknown:

right? And I needed to get rid of the get used to the fact that some people are still uncomfortable with it. I make a joke about the lady with the crazy hair, you know? I make a joke about that kind of to put people at ease, but I don't apologize for it in that process, right? But some people still are not all about me, and that is fine. I am not a taco. I can't make everyone happy. That's right. And that's another thing that you need to recognize, you know, if you decide to wear giant, flamboyantly bright, butterfly colored maxi dresses, some good people are going to be like, you know, let them, right? Let them.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Yeah. And I think, you know, the one thing that really has has stuck with me that I heard recently is that if you're being a version of you that isn't you, your people can't find you, right? And so while you're trying to be all the things to all the people you're actually you're so watered down that the people you're really meant to reach can't find you anyway. And so I

Unknown:

mean, most importantly, you feel scripted and gross and not comfortable and free and. Easy and at peace. And, you know, I mean, it just from you, it feels

Kim Bolourtchi:

bad, yeah. So I think, you know, I think we both agreed it's so much better to just be fully you and let your people find you and the people who aren't for you. It's okay, right? No worries, with the

Unknown:

caveat, of course, that you're not kicking puppies and hurting people. You know, no, of course, not. Of course, like I draw that because my brain goes there. It's like, well, doing you means, you know, kicking puppies or hurting kids, and you need to fix that part. But the rest of it, you know, do the hair and the dress.

Kim Bolourtchi:

Yes, thank you for that. In case anybody out there wanted to kick puppies or hurt people, do not kick puppies or hurt people, right, right? Well.

Unknown:

And the other piece to recognize here and in the world today, where we do have a mental health epidemic happening, people are having challenges with anxiety, with depression. If you try these things and they just don't work, and you're still swirling around in the fear and all that, it may be a time to get some professional help. You know, just recognizing that too, that can make all the difference if that's what your body and your

Kim Bolourtchi:

brain need. Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for the conversation today. You're fabulous and you're fabulous too. This was super fun, please. I'm going to put your links and all of your information in the notes you have books. Do you want to tell everybody about your books?

Unknown:

Sure, there are two fun, short tip books on dealing with change and on leading through change. So the one for individuals is called, get over it. And somebody gave me a hard time the other day about that title. Like, oh, it's rude to tell people to get over it. I'm like, No, Wouldn't you love to get over it, though. Like, it would be really nice. Here's a book that can help you get over it. Like, let's get over this together, not get over it. I wouldn't have written the book if I meant that. So get over it is the book on dealing with change as an individual, and then get them over. It is the book on leading through change. And these are short, small tips. I joke about, like, keep the book on the back your toilet, because sometimes that's only the only time you get two or three minutes of quiet. Read a couple pages, put it down, absorb them throughout the day, and put it into action. So it's a nice, easy read. They're on Amazon and everywhere else. Books are sold.

Kim Bolourtchi:

I love it, and I'll put the links in the show notes also. Thank you for being here today.

Unknown:

Yeah, my pleasure. Kim. Anytime. Thanks for having me. Of course,

Kim Bolourtchi:

this is Kim bolotchi, and you've been listening to get unruly. If you're enjoying the show, we would love it if you would take a minute and give us a rating on Apple podcasts. And if you know anyone who needs to hear this episode, please don't hesitate to pass it on until next time, stay unruly. You.